Topics

DM63


Keith Morehouse
 

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power) with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


Bruce Draper
 

Timely.  
I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts. 


On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power) with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


Keith Morehouse
 

Bruce, that would be great.  With that gear. you'll be loud.  I'm ready any time, but mornings before 10AM would be best for M/S.  There will probably be others that want to work you and I've put out some discreet inquiries on who needs the grid.

-RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 2:34 PM Bruce Draper <bruceaa5b@...> wrote:
Timely.  
I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts. 


On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power) with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


KC7QY
 

Bruce,

Ideally you'd want to go up to Magdalena Ridge. At 10,000 ft this is not a particularly good time to try that though, I can see the snow up there from town now. AA5PR ran from up there as a rover last June with WSJT. The DM63 line is just south of Socorro, the line runs just about through the landfill. If you take the old Hwy 1 south from Socorro, once you pass the landfill there are a couple of pullouts where one could set up. A bit farther south, without crossing I-25 on Hwy 1 but continuing south,you can access some open country, mostly BLM land with pretty good shots to the north and east. There's an old AT&T tower down there and the road turns west and rises into the foothills. Plenty of open space to operate. 

West from here we do have the two ridges but I have been able to work AZ and southern CA with my 3 el and 100 wts pretty regularly.

Jim KC7QY


On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:34:41 PM MST, Bruce Draper <bruceaa5b@...> wrote:


Timely.  
I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts. 


On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power) with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


Scott K5TA
 

It’s not appropriate for a full contest effort, but just as an interesting aside, the north boundary of the parking lot at the T or C McDonald’s is one of the best radio locations I have encountered in my NMQP roves.  180-degree elevated panorama to the north, and zero local noise (as of a few years ago).  

-TA 


On Dec 22, 2019, at 7:27 PM, KC7QY <kc7qy@...> wrote:


Bruce,

Ideally you'd want to go up to Magdalena Ridge. At 10,000 ft this is not a particularly good time to try that though, I can see the snow up there from town now. AA5PR ran from up there as a rover last June with WSJT. The DM63 line is just south of Socorro, the line runs just about through the landfill. If you take the old Hwy 1 south from Socorro, once you pass the landfill there are a couple of pullouts where one could set up. A bit farther south, without crossing I-25 on Hwy 1 but continuing south,you can access some open country, mostly BLM land with pretty good shots to the north and east. There's an old AT&T tower down there and the road turns west and rises into the foothills. Plenty of open space to operate. 

West from here we do have the two ridges but I have been able to work AZ and southern CA with my 3 el and 100 wts pretty regularly.

Jim KC7QY


On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:34:41 PM MST, Bruce Draper <bruceaa5b@...> wrote:


Timely.  
I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts. 


On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power) with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


Steve London
 

The water towers at that exit on I-25 are even better !

73,
Steve, N2IC

On 12/22/2019 08:14 PM, Scott K5TA wrote:
It’s not appropriate for a full contest effort, but just as an interesting aside, the north boundary of the parking lot at the T or C McDonald’s is one of the best radio locations I have encountered in my NMQP roves.  180-degree elevated panorama to the north, and zero local noise (as of a few years ago).
-TA

On Dec 22, 2019, at 7:27 PM, KC7QY <kc7qy@...> wrote:


Bruce,

Ideally you'd want to go up to Magdalena Ridge. At 10,000 ft this is not a particularly good time to try that though, I can see the snow up there from town now. AA5PR ran from up there as a rover last June with WSJT. The DM63 line is just south of Socorro, the line runs just about through the landfill. If you take the old Hwy 1 south from Socorro, once you pass the landfill there are a couple of pullouts where one could set up. A bit farther south, without crossing I-25 on Hwy 1 but continuing south,you can access some open country, mostly BLM land with pretty good shots to the north and east. There's an old AT&T tower down there and the road turns west and rises into the foothills. Plenty of open space to operate.

West from here we do have the two ridges but I have been able to work AZ and southern CA with my 3 el and 100 wts pretty regularly.

Jim KC7QY


On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:34:41 PM MST, Bruce Draper <bruceaa5b@...> wrote:


Timely.
I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts.


On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@... <mailto:w9rm@...>> wrote:

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power) with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


Keith Morehouse
 

Jim, that's good info for future VHF contesting and should be stored somewhere - the same with K5TA's and N2IC's descriptions..  On the NMVHF web site, there are descriptions of hot spots in many different grids.  It would be pretty neat if more people could use the format already presented there and write up grid spots they are familiar with.

In this particular instance, pretty much any reasonable location will work for meteor scatter.  Actually, at this close distance (DM63 to DM58), elevating antennas up to 5-10 degrees above the horizon would enhance the path, although I can't do this at my end on 6.  However, Rovers should keep this in mind.  The display screen of WSJT & WSJT-X, which is the program must everybody uses when running M/S now-a-days, actually has an elevation number displayed, which is simply calculated on the distance between you and who you're trying to work.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 7:27 PM KC7QY <kc7qy@...> wrote:
Bruce,

Ideally you'd want to go up to Magdalena Ridge. At 10,000 ft this is not a particularly good time to try that though, I can see the snow up there from town now. AA5PR ran from up there as a rover last June with WSJT. The DM63 line is just south of Socorro, the line runs just about through the landfill. If you take the old Hwy 1 south from Socorro, once you pass the landfill there are a couple of pullouts where one could set up. A bit farther south, without crossing I-25 on Hwy 1 but continuing south,you can access some open country, mostly BLM land with pretty good shots to the north and east. There's an old AT&T tower down there and the road turns west and rises into the foothills. Plenty of open space to operate. 

West from here we do have the two ridges but I have been able to work AZ and southern CA with my 3 el and 100 wts pretty regularly.

Jim KC7QY


On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:34:41 PM MST, Bruce Draper <bruceaa5b@...> wrote:


Timely.  
I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts. 


On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power) with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


Bill
 

The NMVHF.org website shows, under the "reference" pulldown some good operating spots for rovers and portable operators. Scott, Steve and Jim identified 3 good operating spots.  I would ask each of you to capture this info in the format shown on the website for future operators. We made good use of this info, as it was, during the 2017 contest year when the Central States VHF Conference was held in Albuquerque.  There were many operators who decided to stay in the area and operate the August contest using info from the website.  We got some good feedback about documented operating spots and how easy it was for someone unfamiliar with the area to plan and execute their contesting activities. 

So, that's why we have that info available and I would like to encourage everyone with "tribal knowledge" to contribute to that info published on our website.

When complete, just forward that info to Mike WB2FKO for upload to the website.

Thanks a bunch,

Bill W7QQ


On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:51 AM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:
Jim, that's good info for future VHF contesting and should be stored somewhere - the same with K5TA's and N2IC's descriptions..  On the NMVHF web site, there are descriptions of hot spots in many different grids.  It would be pretty neat if more people could use the format already presented there and write up grid spots they are familiar with.

In this particular instance, pretty much any reasonable location will work for meteor scatter.  Actually, at this close distance (DM63 to DM58), elevating antennas up to 5-10 degrees above the horizon would enhance the path, although I can't do this at my end on 6.  However, Rovers should keep this in mind.  The display screen of WSJT & WSJT-X, which is the program must everybody uses when running M/S now-a-days, actually has an elevation number displayed, which is simply calculated on the distance between you and who you're trying to work.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 7:27 PM KC7QY <kc7qy@...> wrote:
Bruce,

Ideally you'd want to go up to Magdalena Ridge. At 10,000 ft this is not a particularly good time to try that though, I can see the snow up there from town now. AA5PR ran from up there as a rover last June with WSJT. The DM63 line is just south of Socorro, the line runs just about through the landfill. If you take the old Hwy 1 south from Socorro, once you pass the landfill there are a couple of pullouts where one could set up. A bit farther south, without crossing I-25 on Hwy 1 but continuing south,you can access some open country, mostly BLM land with pretty good shots to the north and east. There's an old AT&T tower down there and the road turns west and rises into the foothills. Plenty of open space to operate. 

West from here we do have the two ridges but I have been able to work AZ and southern CA with my 3 el and 100 wts pretty regularly.

Jim KC7QY


On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:34:41 PM MST, Bruce Draper <bruceaa5b@...> wrote:


Timely.  
I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts. 


On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power) with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


James Duffey
 

I must confess that I have been remiss in uploading my rover sites to NMVHF.org. I will try to do that in the new year. Here is a site that I have operated from in DM63.  It is a pullout in Hwy1 south of Socorro, just before HWY crosses over I25. It is about as close to the northern border of DM63 as you can easily get to from Albuquerque. There is plenty of space to set up there and there wasn’t much traffic or many lookie loos when I was there. It was quiet as there are no power lines, that I remember anyway.  It is about 320 miles to W9RM from there. 

I ran a Radio Mobile path calculation and the predicted SNR is about -1dB. That is probably optimistic in NM and winter. None the less it indicates it is a workable path. You might be able to make it on CW. In comparison, the water tower at TorC site has a calculated SNR of +1 dB.  The McDonalds parking lot calculated SNR is -20dB.  The limiting terrain is at W9RM’s end. These SNRs are probably high by 5 to 10dB. 

FT8 should work better at those distances than meteor scatter.  With meteor scatter and no antenna elevation, one end or the other may be better off pointing 180 degrees off the direct path and working meteors off the back. 

I hope this helps. -Duffey KK6MC



James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

On Dec 23, 2019, at 16:31, Bill <bill4070@...> wrote:


The NMVHF.org website shows, under the "reference" pulldown some good operating spots for rovers and portable operators. Scott, Steve and Jim identified 3 good operating spots.  I would ask each of you to capture this info in the format shown on the website for future operators. We made good use of this info, as it was, during the 2017 contest year when the Central States VHF Conference was held in Albuquerque.  There were many operators who decided to stay in the area and operate the August contest using info from the website.  We got some good feedback about documented operating spots and how easy it was for someone unfamiliar with the area to plan and execute their contesting activities. 

So, that's why we have that info available and I would like to encourage everyone with "tribal knowledge" to contribute to that info published on our website.

When complete, just forward that info to Mike WB2FKO for upload to the website.

Thanks a bunch,

Bill W7QQ

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:51 AM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:
Jim, that's good info for future VHF contesting and should be stored somewhere - the same with K5TA's and N2IC's descriptions..  On the NMVHF web site, there are descriptions of hot spots in many different grids.  It would be pretty neat if more people could use the format already presented there and write up grid spots they are familiar with.

In this particular instance, pretty much any reasonable location will work for meteor scatter.  Actually, at this close distance (DM63 to DM58), elevating antennas up to 5-10 degrees above the horizon would enhance the path, although I can't do this at my end on 6.  However, Rovers should keep this in mind.  The display screen of WSJT & WSJT-X, which is the program must everybody uses when running M/S now-a-days, actually has an elevation number displayed, which is simply calculated on the distance between you and who you're trying to work.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 7:27 PM KC7QY <kc7qy@...> wrote:
Bruce,

Ideally you'd want to go up to Magdalena Ridge. At 10,000 ft this is not a particularly good time to try that though, I can see the snow up there from town now. AA5PR ran from up there as a rover last June with WSJT. The DM63 line is just south of Socorro, the line runs just about through the landfill. If you take the old Hwy 1 south from Socorro, once you pass the landfill there are a couple of pullouts where one could set up. A bit farther south, without crossing I-25 on Hwy 1 but continuing south,you can access some open country, mostly BLM land with pretty good shots to the north and east. There's an old AT&T tower down there and the road turns west and rises into the foothills. Plenty of open space to operate. 

West from here we do have the two ridges but I have been able to work AZ and southern CA with my 3 el and 100 wts pretty regularly.

Jim KC7QY


On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:34:41 PM MST, Bruce Draper <bruceaa5b@...> wrote:


Timely.  
I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts. 


On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power) with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


Arne N7KA
 

Looks like exit at 147 then immediate left onto 1 south.  Return to 25N is via same exit 147.  Look a GOOGLE MAP

Arne N7KA

On December 23, 2019 at 5:48 PM James Duffey <JamesDuffey@...> wrote:

I must confess that I have been remiss in uploading my rover sites to NMVHF.org. I will try to do that in the new year. Here is a site that I have operated from in DM63.  It is a pullout in Hwy1 south of Socorro, just before HWY crosses over I25. It is about as close to the northern border of DM63 as you can easily get to from Albuquerque. There is plenty of space to set up there and there wasn’t much traffic or many lookie loos when I was there. It was quiet as there are no power lines, that I remember anyway.  It is about 320 miles to W9RM from there. 

I ran a Radio Mobile path calculation and the predicted SNR is about -1dB. That is probably optimistic in NM and winter. None the less it indicates it is a workable path. You might be able to make it on CW. In comparison, the water tower at TorC site has a calculated SNR of +1 dB.  The McDonalds parking lot calculated SNR is -20dB.  The limiting terrain is at W9RM’s end. These SNRs are probably high by 5 to 10dB. 

FT8 should work better at those distances than meteor scatter.  With meteor scatter and no antenna elevation, one end or the other may be better off pointing 180 degrees off the direct path and working meteors off the back. 

I hope this helps. -Duffey KK6MC



James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

On Dec 23, 2019, at 16:31, Bill <bill4070@...> wrote:

The NMVHF.org website shows, under the "reference" pulldown some good operating spots for rovers and portable operators. Scott, Steve and Jim identified 3 good operating spots.  I would ask each of you to capture this info in the format shown on the website for future operators. We made good use of this info, as it was, during the 2017 contest year when the Central States VHF Conference was held in Albuquerque.  There were many operators who decided to stay in the area and operate the August contest using info from the website.  We got some good feedback about documented operating spots and how easy it was for someone unfamiliar with the area to plan and execute their contesting activities. 

So, that's why we have that info available and I would like to encourage everyone with "tribal knowledge" to contribute to that info published on our website.

When complete, just forward that info to Mike WB2FKO for upload to the website.

Thanks a bunch,

Bill W7QQ

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:51 AM Keith Morehouse < w9rm@...> wrote:
Jim, that's good info for future VHF contesting and should be stored somewhere - the same with K5TA's and N2IC's descriptions..  On the NMVHF web site, there are descriptions of hot spots in many different grids.  It would be pretty neat if more people could use the format already presented there and write up grid spots they are familiar with.

In this particular instance, pretty much any reasonable location will work for meteor scatter.  Actually, at this close distance (DM63 to DM58), elevating antennas up to 5-10 degrees above the horizon would enhance the path, although I can't do this at my end on 6.  However, Rovers should keep this in mind.  The display screen of WSJT & WSJT-X, which is the program must everybody uses when running M/S now-a-days, actually has an elevation number displayed, which is simply calculated on the distance between you and who you're trying to work.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 7:27 PM KC7QY < kc7qy@...> wrote:
Bruce,

Ideally you'd want to go up to Magdalena Ridge. At 10,000 ft this is not a particularly good time to try that though, I can see the snow up there from town now. AA5PR ran from up there as a rover last June with WSJT. The DM63 line is just south of Socorro, the line runs just about through the landfill. If you take the old Hwy 1 south from Socorro, once you pass the landfill there are a couple of pullouts where one could set up. A bit farther south, without crossing I-25 on Hwy 1 but continuing south,you can access some open country, mostly BLM land with pretty good shots to the north and east. There's an old AT&T tower down there and the road turns west and rises into the foothills. Plenty of open space to operate. 

West from here we do have the two ridges but I have been able to work AZ and southern CA with my 3 el and 100 wts pretty regularly.

Jim KC7QY


On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:34:41 PM MST, Bruce Draper < bruceaa5b@...> wrote:


Timely.  
I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts. 


On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse < w9rm@...> wrote:

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power) with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO
 

 

 

 

 


 


Steve London
 

Would it help the meteor scatter possibilities if it was done from T or C, 70 miles farther from W9RM ?

73,
Steve, N2IC

On 12/23/2019 05:48 PM, James Duffey wrote:
I must confess that I have been remiss in uploading my rover sites to NMVHF.org. I will try to do that in the new year. Here is a site that I have operated from in DM63.  It is a pullout in Hwy1 south of Socorro, just before HWY crosses over I25. It is about as close to the northern border of DM63 as you can easily get to from Albuquerque. There is plenty of space to set up there and there wasn’t much traffic or many lookie loos when I was there. It was quiet as there are no power lines, that I remember anyway.  It is about 320 miles to W9RM from there.
I ran a Radio Mobile path calculation and the predicted SNR is about -1dB. That is probably optimistic in NM and winter. None the less it indicates it is a workable path. You might be able to make it on CW. In comparison, the water tower at TorC site has a calculated SNR of +1 dB.  The McDonalds parking lot calculated SNR is -20dB.  The limiting terrain is at W9RM’s end. These SNRs are probably high by 5 to 10dB.
FT8 should work better at those distances than meteor scatter.  With meteor scatter and no antenna elevation, one end or the other may be better off pointing 180 degrees off the direct path and working meteors off the back.
I hope this helps. -Duffey KK6MC
James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

On Dec 23, 2019, at 16:31, Bill <bill4070@...> wrote:


The NMVHF.org website shows, under the "reference" pulldown some good operating spots for rovers and portable operators. Scott, Steve and Jim identified 3 good operating spots.  I would ask each of you to capture this info in the format shown on the website for future operators. We made good use of this info, as it was, during the 2017 contest year when the Central States VHF Conference was held in Albuquerque.  There were many operators who decided to stay in the area and operate the August contest using info from the website.  We got some good feedback about documented operating spots and how easy it was for someone unfamiliar with the area to plan and execute their contesting activities.

So, that's why we have that info available and I would like to encourage everyone with "tribal knowledge" to contribute to that info published on our website.

When complete, just forward that info to Mike WB2FKO for upload to the website.

Thanks a bunch,

Bill W7QQ

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:51 AM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@... <mailto:w9rm@...>> wrote:

Jim, that's good info for future VHF contesting and should be stored
somewhere - the same with K5TA's and N2IC's descriptions..  On the NMVHF
web site, there are descriptions of hot spots in many different grids.  It
would be pretty neat if more people could use the format already presented
there and write up grid spots they are familiar with.

In this particular instance, pretty much any reasonable location will work
for meteor scatter.  Actually, at this close distance (DM63 to DM58),
elevating antennas up to 5-10 degrees above the horizon would enhance the
path, although I can't do this at my end on 6.  However, Rovers should
keep this in mind.  The display screen of WSJT & WSJT-X, which is the
program must everybody uses when running M/S now-a-days, actually has an
elevation number displayed, which is simply calculated on the distance
between you and who you're trying to work.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 7:27 PM KC7QY <kc7qy@...
<mailto:kc7qy@...>> wrote:

Bruce,

Ideally you'd want to go up to Magdalena Ridge. At 10,000 ft this is
not a particularly good time to try that though, I can see the snow up
there from town now. AA5PR ran from up there as a rover last June with
WSJT. The DM63 line is just south of Socorro, the line runs just about
through the landfill. If you take the old Hwy 1 south from Socorro,
once you pass the landfill there are a couple of pullouts where one
could set up. A bit farther south, without crossing I-25 on Hwy 1 but
continuing south,you can access some open country, mostly BLM land
with pretty good shots to the north and east. There's an old AT&T
tower down there and the road turns west and rises into the foothills.
Plenty of open space to operate.

West from here we do have the two ridges but I have been able to work
AZ and southern CA with my 3 el and 100 wts pretty regularly.

Jim KC7QY


On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:34:41 PM MST, Bruce Draper
<bruceaa5b@... <mailto:bruceaa5b@...>> wrote:


Timely.
I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally
back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next
week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts.


On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...
<mailto:w9rm@...>> wrote:

Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run
meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power)
with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the
trick - more is better, of course...

That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the
January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for
the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it
should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested
parties.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


Keith Morehouse
 

To get any kind of efficiency on M/S, you really need to be out beyond 450-500 miles.  That's been my minimum distance cut-off for contest schedules for many years.  So, the farther, the better.  Being able to elevate is the biggest advantage when close in.

BUT, from DM58, I have made dozens of 6M scatter contacts in the 250-400 miles range.  These have been with well equipped stations (500W, 5+ ele antennas) and with mobiles/rovers running anything from whips to 2-3 element beams.  I've worked George, KF2T, all through NV when he's been running nothing more than a halo and 100W.  I don't know what kind of scatter some of these Q's were.  Some appeared to be traditional M/S, with occasional short pings.  Some had longer bursts and flutter-type sounds.  Some were troposcatter - constant, fluttery, weak but easily copied by WSJT.  Because of the short range of most of these Q's, I doubt the major propagation mode were meteors, but the Q was made and logged.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO


On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:06 PM Steve London <n2ic@...> wrote:
Would it help the meteor scatter possibilities if it was done from T or C, 70
miles farther from W9RM ?

73,
Steve, N2IC

On 12/23/2019 05:48 PM, James Duffey wrote:
> I must confess that I have been remiss in uploading my rover sites to NMVHF.org.
> I will try to do that in the new year. Here is a site that I have operated from
> in DM63.  It is a pullout in Hwy1 south of Socorro, just before HWY crosses over
> I25. It is about as close to the northern border of DM63 as you can easily get
> to from Albuquerque. There is plenty of space to set up there and there wasn’t
> much traffic or many lookie loos when I was there. It was quiet as there are no
> power lines, that I remember anyway.  It is about 320 miles to W9RM from there.
>
> I ran a Radio Mobile path calculation and the predicted SNR is about -1dB. That
> is probably optimistic in NM and winter. None the less it indicates it is a
> workable path. You might be able to make it on CW. In comparison, the water
> tower at TorC site has a calculated SNR of +1 dB.  The McDonalds parking lot
> calculated SNR is -20dB.  The limiting terrain is at W9RM’s end. These SNRs are
> probably high by 5 to 10dB.
>
> FT8 should work better at those distances than meteor scatter.  With meteor
> scatter and no antenna elevation, one end or the other may be better off
> pointing 180 degrees off the direct path and working meteors off the back.
>
> I hope this helps. -Duffey KK6MC
>
>
>
> James Duffey KK6MC
> Cedar Crest NM
>
>> On Dec 23, 2019, at 16:31, Bill <bill4070@...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> The NMVHF.org website shows, under the "reference" pulldown some good
>> operating spots for rovers and portable operators. Scott, Steve and Jim
>> identified 3 good operating spots.  I would ask each of you to capture this
>> info in the format shown on the website for future operators. We made good use
>> of this info, as it was, during the 2017 contest year when the Central States
>> VHF Conference was held in Albuquerque.  There were many operators who decided
>> to stay in the area and operate the August contest using info from the
>> website.  We got some good feedback about documented operating spots and how
>> easy it was for someone unfamiliar with the area to plan and execute their
>> contesting activities.
>>
>> So, that's why we have that info available and I would like to encourage
>> everyone with "tribal knowledge" to contribute to that info published on our
>> website.
>>
>> When complete, just forward that info to Mike WB2FKO for upload to the website.
>>
>> Thanks a bunch,
>>
>> Bill W7QQ
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:51 AM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...
>> <mailto:w9rm@...>> wrote:
>>
>>     Jim, that's good info for future VHF contesting and should be stored
>>     somewhere - the same with K5TA's and N2IC's descriptions..  On the NMVHF
>>     web site, there are descriptions of hot spots in many different grids.  It
>>     would be pretty neat if more people could use the format already presented
>>     there and write up grid spots they are familiar with.
>>
>>     In this particular instance, pretty much any reasonable location will work
>>     for meteor scatter.  Actually, at this close distance (DM63 to DM58),
>>     elevating antennas up to 5-10 degrees above the horizon would enhance the
>>     path, although I can't do this at my end on 6.  However, Rovers should
>>     keep this in mind.  The display screen of WSJT & WSJT-X, which is the
>>     program must everybody uses when running M/S now-a-days, actually has an
>>     elevation number displayed, which is simply calculated on the distance
>>     between you and who you're trying to work.
>>
>>     -W9RM
>>
>>     Keith J Morehouse
>>     Managing Partner
>>     Calmesa Partners G.P.
>>     Olathe, CO
>>
>>
>>     On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 7:27 PM KC7QY <kc7qy@...
>>     <mailto:kc7qy@...>> wrote:
>>
>>         Bruce,
>>
>>         Ideally you'd want to go up to Magdalena Ridge. At 10,000 ft this is
>>         not a particularly good time to try that though, I can see the snow up
>>         there from town now. AA5PR ran from up there as a rover last June with
>>         WSJT. The DM63 line is just south of Socorro, the line runs just about
>>         through the landfill. If you take the old Hwy 1 south from Socorro,
>>         once you pass the landfill there are a couple of pullouts where one
>>         could set up. A bit farther south, without crossing I-25 on Hwy 1 but
>>         continuing south,you can access some open country, mostly BLM land
>>         with pretty good shots to the north and east. There's an old AT&T
>>         tower down there and the road turns west and rises into the foothills.
>>         Plenty of open space to operate.
>>
>>         West from here we do have the two ridges but I have been able to work
>>         AZ and southern CA with my 3 el and 100 wts pretty regularly.
>>
>>         Jim KC7QY
>>
>>
>>         On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:34:41 PM MST, Bruce Draper
>>         <bruceaa5b@... <mailto:bruceaa5b@...>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>         Timely.
>>         I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally
>>         back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next
>>         week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts.
>>
>>
>>         On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...
>>         <mailto:w9rm@...>> wrote:
>>
>>>         Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run
>>>         meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power)
>>>         with me ?  For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the
>>>         trick - more is better, of course...
>>>
>>>         That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6.  Maybe during the
>>>         January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for
>>>         the peak of the Quadrantids ??  With decent equipment on your end, it
>>>         should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested
>>>         parties.
>>>
>>>         -W9RM
>>>
>>>         Keith J Morehouse
>>>         Managing Partner
>>>         Calmesa Partners G.P.
>>>         Olathe, CO
>>
>