Date   
W9RM - September VHF

Keith Morehouse
 

Summary:
BAND     QSOs     MULTs
6                67            54
2                38            26
222              4              4
432             11            11

Total Score:  120x95 => 12,285

Pretty good Rover turn-out for this contest and a little unusual conditions. Had a short Es opening on 6 to south TX and almost tropo-like conditions set in over the desert valleys due to some monsoonal moisture over the four corners. Because of that, it appeared I had better coverage into the eastern plains and was able to work rovers & a few fixed stations heretofore unreachable. Thanks to those same Rovers for a multitude of grid multipliers. Although, as usual, I didn't have much luck with local grids. I worked ONE DM58 station on 6M FT8 (of all modes - jeeze) and NOBODY in the surrounding DM59, DM69 & DM68. Even a basic rover with a tri-band radio and 222 add-on up at the grid corner (which I can see out the window) would have given me FIFTEEN more mults. Add on 902 and 1296, which I have full capability on and it would have been an extra TWENTY THREE mults, almost 10,000 more points AND a multiplier count close to the top scores out of New England. Lame.... Had to shut down a few hours early to get the towers and antennas squared away before the heaviest of the monsoons hit tonight and tomorrow. But, the same storms have rained out the four corners rover groups so not too much loss. EQUIPMENT 6M - 7 el @ 65', 7 el @ 40' & 5 el @ 30' fixed NW + KW 2M - 5WL yagi at 50' + 600W SSPA 222 - 5WL yagi @ 70' + 400W 432 - 9WL yagi @ 75' + KW SSPA
902 & 1296 on the shelf with nobody to work. -W9RM DM58xn  



Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO

Re: [AOCC] ARRL Sep VHF K7HP Single Op LP

Bill Mader
 

Sadly, the same is true on HF now!  There will be lots of FT8 signals on the bands and few, sometimes none, SSB and CW signals.  We operated the WAE SSB Contest from VY2TT as VY2AT this past weekend.  There were many times our CQ's went unanswered because there were no new ops to work.  

It's far worse on a weekday for example when I'm running a county, chasing parks or SOTA, etc.  These smaller groups often have more activity than the bands in general.  Although, it seems a lot of County Hunters have "drifted" over to FT8.

One of our team members here this weekend who is just short of the DXCC Honor Roll operates FT8 almost exclusively.  He chases DX entities with that mode for missing band-slots.  Often, FT8 is the only mode that propagation supports.

Another old friend, and now former contester, skips contests in favor of operating FT8 exclusively!  Just a year older than I, I hope I never get to the point where all I can handle, or all that interests me, is a couple of clicks to make a contact.

I will likely wait for the dust to begin to settle on WSJT-X contesting.  I think it's great that Joe and his team plus others are working hard on making those modes work.  However, it will require an incredible amount of training and education to make them work among the masses.  I will briefly cover some of these concepts at HF University at the DCHF this coming weekend.

Good luck in the contest!

73, Bill Mader, K8TE
W6H NM Coordinator, Route 66 On-the-Air 7-15 Sep 2019
ARRL New Mexico Section Manager
ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio
Duke City Hamfest BoD www.dukecityhamfest.org 20-22 Sep 2019
President, Albuquerque DX Association 

Re: [AOCC] ARRL Sep VHF K7HP Single Op LP

KD
 

I have only been on VHF (6 and 2) since late May.  My first experience on 6M is hundreds of signals at most times of the day, only on FT8.  I have listened and called CQ on CW and SSB, but to this day, no takers.  So the vast majority of my 6M contacts are FT8.  During August I drifted to MSK since it seemed that FT8 was dead, and I did make contacts.  Fast forward to this weekend, and I was puzzled why so many people wanted me to try FT8 with them on 6M.  Anytime that I listened to the FT8 frequency on 6M, I got a burst every now and then.  No full period signal with one exception.  I worked W7DHH Saturday night.  He had a huge signal on the 600+ mile path and we tied up the QSO in normal time.  I heard him for at least 30 minutes longer calling CQ.  I don't know what the propagation mode was but that was the only good signal I heard on 6M FT8 the whole weekend.  My point is that I'm flabbergasted that anyone was using FT8  except to work very close stations.  2M on the other hand, was great for FT8.  All but 2 of my contacts on 2M were FT8 and they were in the 200 to 400 mile range.

This was my very first contest in my 49 years of ham radio.  It was definitely a huge learning experience.

73 de N5KS - KD

Re: [AOCC] ARRL Sep VHF K7HP Single Op LP

Keith Morehouse
 

I agree with K7HP's assessment of FT8.  For contesting, not only is FT8 intolerant of static crashes, but also of meteor pings, of which 6M has in abundance.

 Yesterday, KK6MC Rover op Mike, WB2FKO and I also found another problem with FT8. It is totally intolerant of multi-path.   We attempted a ~300 mile 432 MHz path over the mountains from DM58 to DM44.  We made a snap decision to use FT8 because of experience earlier that morning on a similar path.  Even though my signal was very loud in DM44, Mike could not get a decode.  We cycled through JT65 (where the multi-path problem was painfully obvious) to MSK144 and finally just went to CW (they were having equipment issues which took them off CW without a re-cable of their 432 system, so that mode wasn't immediately available).  Why didn't we just choose CW as our starting point, you ask ?  It was a combo of the aforementioned equipment problem AND the fact I was running 13 dB more power on my end (1000 vs 50 watts - the allowed maximum in NM/AZ).  A good signal on the south end of the path did not necessarily equate to easy copy on the north end.

The take away lesson here is obvious.  Intermountain paths are full of multi-path situations.  This multi-path was not immediately obvious on the FT8 waterfall display and no amount of digital fiddling about could produce a decode on a loud signal.  Meanwhile, on my end, with a considerably weaker signal and no multi-path, I was decoding 100% of the time.

A smart operator must consider all of the WSJTX modes as tools in the box.  No one tool is good for all circumstances.  This is MY major issue with FT8.  Most casual operators on 6M have given up on SSB operation, even during band openings and are exclusive users of FT8.  During a contest, when the goal is working as many stations as possible, they are limiting the run rate for everyone, serious and non-serious ops alike.  Unfortunately, many serious ops are dragged along in the rush, saying 'Well, we need to abandon SSB also and follow the contacts'.  This is impacting scores, impacting the 'fun factor' of 6M contesting for many and, most worry some to me, moving a lot of very experienced operators away from VHF contesting and off 6&2 in general.

-W9RM

Keith Morehouse
via MotoG


On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 8:53 AM Steve London <n2ic@...> wrote:
On 09/15/2019 11:21 PM, K7HP wrote:
>
> ARRL September VHF Contest - 2019
>
> Comments:
> I just cannot get much interested in contesting using FT8 .
> Have no particular issue with using FT8 day to day but
> as a contest mode ESPECIALLY when I can hear by ear
> at least 75 percent of the signals I work on FT8 and could work
> them on CW in 5 -10 seconds .
This seemed especially true on 6 meter FT8. A static crash during the RX cycle
would eliminate any chance of a decode. My brain would have easily filled in the
missing dot or dash. Also, there was rapid QSB on most FT8 signals (weak Es ?
meteor trails ?). WSJT-X was also intolerant of that, whereas my brain and CW
would have had no problems.

MSK144 would have been far more appropriate than FT8.

73,
Steve, N2IC



Re: [AOCC] ARRL Sep VHF K7HP Single Op LP

Steve London
 

On 09/15/2019 11:21 PM, K7HP wrote:
ARRL September VHF Contest - 2019
Comments:
I just cannot get much interested in contesting using FT8 .
Have no particular issue with using FT8 day to day but
as a contest mode ESPECIALLY when I can hear by ear
at least 75 percent of the signals I work on FT8 and could work
them on CW in 5 -10 seconds .
This seemed especially true on 6 meter FT8. A static crash during the RX cycle would eliminate any chance of a decode. My brain would have easily filled in the missing dot or dash. Also, there was rapid QSB on most FT8 signals (weak Es ? meteor trails ?). WSJT-X was also intolerant of that, whereas my brain and CW would have had no problems.

MSK144 would have been far more appropriate than FT8.

73,
Steve, N2IC

Re: KK6MC/R operation

Keith Morehouse
 

Thanks for the update Olivia.  Although, I'm sure Mike was looking forward to a night in the bush....


-W9RM

Keith Morehouse
via MotoG


On Sun, Sep 15, 2019, 7:59 PM KG5FHU <omedina531@...> wrote:
KK6MC and WB2FKO are off the muddy mountain roads and headed back to NM. 

Hope everyone had a good time contesting this weekend. 

- Olivia KG5FHU



On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 6:06 PM Jay <whereisjay@...> wrote:
Glad to hear the guys are safe.

- Jay N1AV

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 3:02 PM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:
Their rove is over due to very hazardous road conditions in N AZ.  All dirt roads are very slippery and they will hold in place in DM45wv until things dry out and are safe for travel.  All is fine besides that and their families have been informed.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO

Re: KK6MC/R operation

KG5FHU
 

KK6MC and WB2FKO are off the muddy mountain roads and headed back to NM. 

Hope everyone had a good time contesting this weekend. 

- Olivia KG5FHU



On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 6:06 PM Jay <whereisjay@...> wrote:
Glad to hear the guys are safe.

- Jay N1AV

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 3:02 PM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:
Their rove is over due to very hazardous road conditions in N AZ.  All dirt roads are very slippery and they will hold in place in DM45wv until things dry out and are safe for travel.  All is fine besides that and their families have been informed.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO

Re: KK6MC/R operation

Jay
 

Glad to hear the guys are safe.

- Jay N1AV


On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 3:02 PM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:
Their rove is over due to very hazardous road conditions in N AZ.  All dirt roads are very slippery and they will hold in place in DM45wv until things dry out and are safe for travel.  All is fine besides that and their families have been informed.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO

KK6MC/R operation

Keith Morehouse
 

Their rove is over due to very hazardous road conditions in N AZ.  All dirt roads are very slippery and they will hold in place in DM45wv until things dry out and are safe for travel.  All is fine besides that and their families have been informed.

-W9RM

Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO

Re: KK6MC/r activity

KC7QY
 

KD,

6M SSB starts at 50.125 and goes up from there if the band opens up. The segment 50.100 to 50.125 is reserved for DX operations, technically for intercontinental QSOs but you will hear XE stations there if there is prop. 6M CW is pretty much confined to 50.090 to 50.100 though you may find a few stations working below .090. 50.090 is the official calling frequency but I often hear stations calling around 50.098 +/-. 2M calling frequency is 144.200, you'll find both SSB and CW there.

Good luck. Try to work the rovers when they change grids. You can work them each time they are in a new grid.

Jim KC7QY


On Saturday, September 14, 2019, 11:24:08 AM MDT, KD <n5ks@...> wrote:


Never participated in the VHF+ contests, but plan to make some noise this weekend.  What QRG is used for CW and SSB on 6M and 2M.  Just wondering where to listen.

73 de N5KS - KD

Re: KK6MC/r activity

KD
 

Never participated in the VHF+ contests, but plan to make some noise this weekend.  What QRG is used for CW and SSB on 6M and 2M.  Just wondering where to listen.

73 de N5KS - KD

Re: Troposcatter & ducting

Bill
 

Duffey,

No, it made it I was late in seeing it and asked just before I saw it in my cue.

Yes, the EME array has better gain than the stacked yagis, judging by the radio check I had with W9RM.

Will track you and Mike on 2.  Sorry I'll not have 222 through 1296.

Have fun es 73 Bill


On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 6:11 PM James Duffey <JamesDuffey@...> wrote:
Bill - Holy crap that is a killer array!

I sent an itinerary earlier, but I guess it didn’t make it?
 
Here it is again:

KK6MC/r itinerary ARRL Sept VHF Contest


Grid Time on Time out

September 14, 2019

DM64bw 1800Z   1930Z

In motion, through DM65 to DM55

DM55xh 2030Z 2200Z

In motion through DM55 (+ bit of DM54)

September 15, 2020

DM44ww 0000Z 0200Z 

Break for dinner, but we may operate later

Next day local, still Sept 15 local

DM44ww 1300Z   1500Z

We will dedicate this operating period to 6M MSK144

DM45wa 1515Z 1715Z

We will dedicate this operating period to 6M MSK144

DM45wa   1715Z 1800Z

We will dedicate this operating period to SSB & CW 

In motion through DM45 and DM46

DM46vc 2000Z 2130Z

In motion through DM46 and DM56

DM56ec   2230Z 0000Z

In motion through DM56, DM55, DM65 (+ a bit of DM64)

DM65   0300Z

end of contest, if we are early we will operate a bit here


WB2FKO whose home station is dismantled in preparation for a move will be operating with me. While we are dedicating most of Sunday morning to MSK144 we will operate FT8 and FT4 when in the other grids. WSJT-X while roving is new to me, so I am still feeling my way around, but we plan on spending roughly the first half hour at a grid on SSB & CW, then the next half hour or so on FT8/FT4 and then what time remains at the end back on SSB and CW. If we get behind schedule we will try to leave on time, which may leave us short of operating time at a grid.


When we have cell access we will be on Slack and APRS. 

James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

On Sep 13, 2019, at 16:51, Bill <bill4070@...> wrote:

Guys,

Just erected the 4x9 eme array which I'll use for tropo(n) with the antennas pointing to horizon.  So that's added to the limited capability here.  So 6, 2, 10 G and 24 G.

GL es have fun.

Duffey; any news with the rove plan??  Anyone else out portable or roving?

Bill W7QQ

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 3:29 PM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:
A random observation...

There is troposcatter and then there is tropospheric ducting, which is what most VHF+ ops from east of the continental divide (and some west coasters) are familiar with, when 2M and above 'opens' over paths exceeding 3-400 miles.

While troposcatter is a useable propagating mode most anywhere and accountable for a good majority of those 300 mile Q's on 10M and above, tropo ducting is another animal altogether and rarely appears in areas of drastically variable terrain like central and western Colorado.  The temperature inversions that often (always ??) cause ducting to occur are usually at low enough elevations that they are blocked by high terrain.  Plus, inversions go hand in hand with atmospheric moisture content, something hard to come by in the dry southwest.  My current humidity here in DM58 is 15%, which actually is high for this time of year.

-W9RM

Keith Morehouse
via MotoG

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 3:08 PM James Duffey <JamesDuffey@...> wrote:
I was referring to the Olathe-Amarillo path. Tropo losses rise steeply beyond 300 miles. Six and two are not too different with respect to the plot below. Meteor scatter starts to overcome tropo at about 350 miles, depending on station capability. WSJT-X helps, but at those distances MSK144 is probably better than FT8 or FT4 for that path. Typical modest station capability on 2M is about 200dB, less on 6M roughly by the difference in antenna gains.

The difference in large part is due to the height of the scattering media; for troposatter it is about 35,000 ft or below, for meteor scatter is it 60 miles or so. - Duffey


James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

> On Sep 13, 2019, at 13:42, Steve London <n2ic@...> wrote:
>
> Albuquerque-to-Amarillo: 269 miles. Once you get over the Sandia's, it's a mostly downhill-to-flat path.
>
> Olathe-to-Amarillo: 410 miles.
>
> For reference, My QTH in DM52XT to Santa Fe is 240 miles. Can work W7QQ on 6 and 2.
>
> 73,
> Steve, N2IC
>
>> On 09/13/2019 10:29 AM, Arne N7KA wrote:
>> I am  hearing him and decoding.
>> Arne N7KA
>>> On September 13, 2019 at 10:20 AM Ed <n5jeh@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> MSK  144 would work better for that distance with no other propagation to help. Just MHO
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>>
>>> *ED  N5JEH   DM65RD *
>>>
>>> *From: *Arne N7KA <mailto:N7KA@...>
>>> *Sent: *Friday, September 13, 2019 8:52 AM
>>> *To: *NMVHF <mailto:nmvhf@groups.io>
>>> *Subject: *[nmvhf] DM95
>>>
>>> I copied N5KS on 6M FT8 yesterday with good sigs -8 to -14.  I am trying to work him for new 6M grid and sent him  an email about looking this way and into Olathe during the contest this weeked.   He is in Amarillo.  N5EPA might have a good chance, possibly W7QQ.
>>>
>>> Arne N7KA
>>>
>
>
>



[AOCC] AOCC Rovers in ARRL September VHF Contest

Steve London
 

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [AOCC] AOCC Rovers in ARRL September VHF Contest
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:58:37 -0700
From: Gary Hembree <n7ir@...>
To: AOCC List Server <aocc@...>

The following Arizona Outlaws Contesting Club members have announced rover operations in this weekend’s ARRL September VHF Contest. Please support them and their AOCC mentors by working them as often as you can.

AC7FF/R (Sunday only) 1 to 1.5 hours op time per grid; 144,432,6,22,900,1296 operating sequence
DM33 - 18:00 UTC DM32 - 20:00 UTC
DM42 - 22:00 UTC
DM43 - 00:00 UTC (If time and weather permits)
6-2-222-432-902-1296 SSB/CW, 927.5 FM, his calling frequency will be on 2 meter SSB
KJ7JC/R (Sat afternoon + Sunday) DM 44, 43, 42, 33, 32 2-222-432-1296 SSB, 927.5 FM

N7GP/R (Saturday) DM32/33 and DM42/43 (twice) then DM42 and 43 overnight on 6 and 2 digi modes
(Sunday starting 1200 UTC) DM32, 42, 43, 33, 34, 44, 45 (possible 35) 6-2-222-432-902/927.5-1296-2304 all modes; FM attempts welcome on any band
wa8wzg@... or 419-370-8802 cell or text for skeds or location

N7OW/R (both days) 6-2-222-432 voice and CW
Saturday: Dm44 18:00 UTC
Dm45 21:00 UTC
Dm55 23:30 UTC
Dm54 01:00 UTC
Sunday: Dm33 15:00 UTC
Dm32 17:00 UTC
Dm42 18:30 UTC
Dm43 20:00 UTC
Text 602-469-7113 for skeds; beaconing on aprs real time at aprs.fi

NY7N/R (Saturday) DM42aw, DM32xw, DM33xb (Sunday) DM43ai, DM43bn 6, 2, 432, 1296 SSB, 223.5, 927.5 FM
Text 480-544-4946 for skeds or location

The suggested rover FM simplex frequencies are:
146.58 / 223.5 / 446.0 / 927.5 .

The Summits On The Air group also use 144.410 / 1296.410 FM. http://www.sotawatch.org/alerts.php
KK6MC/R has posted his schedule to the reflector and you may consult it for details.

Work as many of our rovers on as many bands as you have available this weekend!

73
Gary, N7IR
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Re: Troposcatter & ducting

James Duffey
 

Bill - Holy crap that is a killer array!

I sent an itinerary earlier, but I guess it didn’t make it?
 
Here it is again:

KK6MC/r itinerary ARRL Sept VHF Contest


Grid Time on Time out

September 14, 2019

DM64bw 1800Z   1930Z

In motion, through DM65 to DM55

DM55xh 2030Z 2200Z

In motion through DM55 (+ bit of DM54)

September 15, 2020

DM44ww 0000Z 0200Z 

Break for dinner, but we may operate later

Next day local, still Sept 15 local

DM44ww 1300Z   1500Z

We will dedicate this operating period to 6M MSK144

DM45wa 1515Z 1715Z

We will dedicate this operating period to 6M MSK144

DM45wa   1715Z 1800Z

We will dedicate this operating period to SSB & CW 

In motion through DM45 and DM46

DM46vc 2000Z 2130Z

In motion through DM46 and DM56

DM56ec   2230Z 0000Z

In motion through DM56, DM55, DM65 (+ a bit of DM64)

DM65   0300Z

end of contest, if we are early we will operate a bit here


WB2FKO whose home station is dismantled in preparation for a move will be operating with me. While we are dedicating most of Sunday morning to MSK144 we will operate FT8 and FT4 when in the other grids. WSJT-X while roving is new to me, so I am still feeling my way around, but we plan on spending roughly the first half hour at a grid on SSB & CW, then the next half hour or so on FT8/FT4 and then what time remains at the end back on SSB and CW. If we get behind schedule we will try to leave on time, which may leave us short of operating time at a grid.


When we have cell access we will be on Slack and APRS. 

James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

On Sep 13, 2019, at 16:51, Bill <bill4070@...> wrote:

Guys,

Just erected the 4x9 eme array which I'll use for tropo(n) with the antennas pointing to horizon.  So that's added to the limited capability here.  So 6, 2, 10 G and 24 G.

GL es have fun.

Duffey; any news with the rove plan??  Anyone else out portable or roving?

Bill W7QQ

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 3:29 PM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:
A random observation...

There is troposcatter and then there is tropospheric ducting, which is what most VHF+ ops from east of the continental divide (and some west coasters) are familiar with, when 2M and above 'opens' over paths exceeding 3-400 miles.

While troposcatter is a useable propagating mode most anywhere and accountable for a good majority of those 300 mile Q's on 10M and above, tropo ducting is another animal altogether and rarely appears in areas of drastically variable terrain like central and western Colorado.  The temperature inversions that often (always ??) cause ducting to occur are usually at low enough elevations that they are blocked by high terrain.  Plus, inversions go hand in hand with atmospheric moisture content, something hard to come by in the dry southwest.  My current humidity here in DM58 is 15%, which actually is high for this time of year.

-W9RM

Keith Morehouse
via MotoG

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 3:08 PM James Duffey <JamesDuffey@...> wrote:
I was referring to the Olathe-Amarillo path. Tropo losses rise steeply beyond 300 miles. Six and two are not too different with respect to the plot below. Meteor scatter starts to overcome tropo at about 350 miles, depending on station capability. WSJT-X helps, but at those distances MSK144 is probably better than FT8 or FT4 for that path. Typical modest station capability on 2M is about 200dB, less on 6M roughly by the difference in antenna gains.

The difference in large part is due to the height of the scattering media; for troposatter it is about 35,000 ft or below, for meteor scatter is it 60 miles or so. - Duffey


James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

> On Sep 13, 2019, at 13:42, Steve London <n2ic@...> wrote:
>
> Albuquerque-to-Amarillo: 269 miles. Once you get over the Sandia's, it's a mostly downhill-to-flat path.
>
> Olathe-to-Amarillo: 410 miles.
>
> For reference, My QTH in DM52XT to Santa Fe is 240 miles. Can work W7QQ on 6 and 2.
>
> 73,
> Steve, N2IC
>
>> On 09/13/2019 10:29 AM, Arne N7KA wrote:
>> I am  hearing him and decoding.
>> Arne N7KA
>>> On September 13, 2019 at 10:20 AM Ed <n5jeh@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> MSK  144 would work better for that distance with no other propagation to help. Just MHO
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>>
>>> *ED  N5JEH   DM65RD *
>>>
>>> *From: *Arne N7KA <mailto:N7KA@...>
>>> *Sent: *Friday, September 13, 2019 8:52 AM
>>> *To: *NMVHF <mailto:nmvhf@groups.io>
>>> *Subject: *[nmvhf] DM95
>>>
>>> I copied N5KS on 6M FT8 yesterday with good sigs -8 to -14.  I am trying to work him for new 6M grid and sent him  an email about looking this way and into Olathe during the contest this weeked.   He is in Amarillo.  N5EPA might have a good chance, possibly W7QQ.
>>>
>>> Arne N7KA
>>>
>
>
>



Vhf contest

Michael Daly
 


 I won't be operating the VHF contest this weekend instead I'm on Prince Edward Island operating the All European contest

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 19:53 Arne N7KA <N7KA@...> wrote:

I have a Kenwood TS-2000 barefoot and can run:
      50 MHz 100W 7 el at 30 feet
    144 MHz 100W 18 el at 38 feet


That is quite capable.

Arne N7KA

N5KS info

Arne N7KA
 

I have a Kenwood TS-2000 barefoot and can run:
      50 MHz 100W 7 el at 30 feet
    144 MHz 100W 18 el at 38 feet


That is quite capable.

Arne N7KA

Re: Troposcatter & ducting

Bill
 

Guys,

Just erected the 4x9 eme array which I'll use for tropo(n) with the antennas pointing to horizon.  So that's added to the limited capability here.  So 6, 2, 10 G and 24 G.

GL es have fun.

Duffey; any news with the rove plan??  Anyone else out portable or roving?

Bill W7QQ


On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 3:29 PM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...> wrote:
A random observation...

There is troposcatter and then there is tropospheric ducting, which is what most VHF+ ops from east of the continental divide (and some west coasters) are familiar with, when 2M and above 'opens' over paths exceeding 3-400 miles.

While troposcatter is a useable propagating mode most anywhere and accountable for a good majority of those 300 mile Q's on 10M and above, tropo ducting is another animal altogether and rarely appears in areas of drastically variable terrain like central and western Colorado.  The temperature inversions that often (always ??) cause ducting to occur are usually at low enough elevations that they are blocked by high terrain.  Plus, inversions go hand in hand with atmospheric moisture content, something hard to come by in the dry southwest.  My current humidity here in DM58 is 15%, which actually is high for this time of year.

-W9RM

Keith Morehouse
via MotoG

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 3:08 PM James Duffey <JamesDuffey@...> wrote:
I was referring to the Olathe-Amarillo path. Tropo losses rise steeply beyond 300 miles. Six and two are not too different with respect to the plot below. Meteor scatter starts to overcome tropo at about 350 miles, depending on station capability. WSJT-X helps, but at those distances MSK144 is probably better than FT8 or FT4 for that path. Typical modest station capability on 2M is about 200dB, less on 6M roughly by the difference in antenna gains.

The difference in large part is due to the height of the scattering media; for troposatter it is about 35,000 ft or below, for meteor scatter is it 60 miles or so. - Duffey


James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

> On Sep 13, 2019, at 13:42, Steve London <n2ic@...> wrote:
>
> Albuquerque-to-Amarillo: 269 miles. Once you get over the Sandia's, it's a mostly downhill-to-flat path.
>
> Olathe-to-Amarillo: 410 miles.
>
> For reference, My QTH in DM52XT to Santa Fe is 240 miles. Can work W7QQ on 6 and 2.
>
> 73,
> Steve, N2IC
>
>> On 09/13/2019 10:29 AM, Arne N7KA wrote:
>> I am  hearing him and decoding.
>> Arne N7KA
>>> On September 13, 2019 at 10:20 AM Ed <n5jeh@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> MSK  144 would work better for that distance with no other propagation to help. Just MHO
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>>
>>> *ED  N5JEH   DM65RD *
>>>
>>> *From: *Arne N7KA <mailto:N7KA@...>
>>> *Sent: *Friday, September 13, 2019 8:52 AM
>>> *To: *NMVHF <mailto:nmvhf@groups.io>
>>> *Subject: *[nmvhf] DM95
>>>
>>> I copied N5KS on 6M FT8 yesterday with good sigs -8 to -14.  I am trying to work him for new 6M grid and sent him  an email about looking this way and into Olathe during the contest this weeked.   He is in Amarillo.  N5EPA might have a good chance, possibly W7QQ.
>>>
>>> Arne N7KA
>>>
>
>
>



Re: Troposcatter & ducting

Keith Morehouse
 

I do.  Until 6 years ago, I was able to take advantage of it.

I recall a bad cold wave around Thanksgiving one year, when the Great Lakes were still warm and ice free.  A duct set up over the lakes and up the St Lawrence valley that allowed me to work K1WHS in Maine on 2, 222 & 432, along with VE2's from EN52 - well over 800 miles.  And, 2M QSOs all the way to VE1.  On 432, I was using a single 9WL yagi at 40' and 200W.

I also had a 'everyday' range of close to 400 miles on 2M troposcatter with a 5WL yagi at 75'.  Well set-up rovers could be worked out to 300-350 miles on 6 & 2M.  That's actually not too much different from what I see here in DM58.  Unfortunately, many local rovers are just not set up for longer haul stuff like they were in the upper Midwest.  They mostly have a 'work local' attitude.  You would never see serious rovers in IL, WI or MN counting on loops for 6 or 2.  The easily worked 6M rovers ran full size antennas, even if it was just a dipole or beam driven element.  It made a huge difference.

-W9RM

Keith Morehouse
via MotoG


On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 3:35 PM Steve London <n2ic@...> wrote:
Last week, there were several -days- of 2 meter propagation between Mississippi
and Ontario/Western NY, to the west of Dorian. Eat your heart out.

73,
Steve, N2IC

On 09/13/2019 03:29 PM, Keith Morehouse wrote:
> A random observation...
>
> There is troposcatter and then there is tropospheric ducting, which is what most
> VHF+ ops from east of the continental divide (and some west coasters) are
> familiar with, when 2M and above 'opens' over paths exceeding 3-400 miles.
>
> While troposcatter is a useable propagating mode most anywhere and accountable
> for a good majority of those 300 mile Q's on 10M and above, tropo ducting is
> another animal altogether and rarely appears in areas of drastically variable
> terrain like central and western Colorado.  The temperature inversions that
> often (always ??) cause ducting to occur are usually at low enough elevations
> that they are blocked by high terrain.  Plus, inversions go hand in hand with
> atmospheric moisture content, something hard to come by in the dry southwest. 
> My current humidity here in DM58 is 15%, which actually is high for this time of
> year.
>
> -W9RM
>
> Keith Morehouse
> via MotoG
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 3:08 PM James Duffey <JamesDuffey@...
> <mailto:JamesDuffey@...>> wrote:
>
>     I was referring to the Olathe-Amarillo path. Tropo losses rise steeply
>     beyond 300 miles. Six and two are not too different with respect to the plot
>     below. Meteor scatter starts to overcome tropo at about 350 miles, depending
>     on station capability. WSJT-X helps, but at those distances MSK144 is
>     probably better than FT8 or FT4 for that path. Typical modest station
>     capability on 2M is about 200dB, less on 6M roughly by the difference in
>     antenna gains.
>
>     The difference in large part is due to the height of the scattering media;
>     for troposatter it is about 35,000 ft or below, for meteor scatter is it 60
>     miles or so. - Duffey
>
>
>     James Duffey KK6MC
>     Cedar Crest NM
>
>      > On Sep 13, 2019, at 13:42, Steve London <n2ic@...
>     <mailto:n2ic@...>> wrote:
>      >
>      > Albuquerque-to-Amarillo: 269 miles. Once you get over the Sandia's, it's
>     a mostly downhill-to-flat path.
>      >
>      > Olathe-to-Amarillo: 410 miles.
>      >
>      > For reference, My QTH in DM52XT to Santa Fe is 240 miles. Can work W7QQ
>     on 6 and 2.
>      >
>      > 73,
>      > Steve, N2IC
>      >
>      >> On 09/13/2019 10:29 AM, Arne N7KA wrote:
>      >> I am  hearing him and decoding.
>      >> Arne N7KA
>      >>> On September 13, 2019 at 10:20 AM Ed <n5jeh@...
>     <mailto:n5jeh@...>> wrote:
>      >>>
>      >>> MSK  144 would work better for that distance with no other propagation
>     to help. Just MHO
>      >>>
>      >>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>     Windows 10
>      >>>
>      >>> *ED  N5JEH   DM65RD *
>      >>>
>      >>> *From: *Arne N7KA <mailto:N7KA@... <mailto:N7KA@...>>
>      >>> *Sent: *Friday, September 13, 2019 8:52 AM
>      >>> *To: *NMVHF <mailto:nmvhf@groups.io <mailto:nmvhf@groups.io>>
>      >>> *Subject: *[nmvhf] DM95
>      >>>
>      >>> I copied N5KS on 6M FT8 yesterday with good sigs -8 to -14.  I am
>     trying to work him for new 6M grid and sent him  an email about looking this
>     way and into Olathe during the contest this weeked.   He is in Amarillo.
>     N5EPA might have a good chance, possibly W7QQ.
>      >>>
>      >>> Arne N7KA
>      >>>
>      >
>      >
>      >
>
>
>
>



Re: Troposcatter & ducting

James Duffey
 

Yes, tropoducting is almost unheard of in the Southwest. Of course, we don’t get the tropical storms either.

James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

On Sep 13, 2019, at 15:35, Steve London <n2ic@...> wrote:

Last week, there were several -days- of 2 meter propagation between Mississippi and Ontario/Western NY, to the west of Dorian. Eat your heart out.

73,
Steve, N2IC

On 09/13/2019 03:29 PM, Keith Morehouse wrote:
A random observation...
There is troposcatter and then there is tropospheric ducting, which is what most VHF+ ops from east of the continental divide (and some west coasters) are familiar with, when 2M and above 'opens' over paths exceeding 3-400 miles.
While troposcatter is a useable propagating mode most anywhere and accountable for a good majority of those 300 mile Q's on 10M and above, tropo ducting is another animal altogether and rarely appears in areas of drastically variable terrain like central and western Colorado. The temperature inversions that often (always ??) cause ducting to occur are usually at low enough elevations that they are blocked by high terrain. Plus, inversions go hand in hand with atmospheric moisture content, something hard to come by in the dry southwest. My current humidity here in DM58 is 15%, which actually is high for this time of year.
-W9RM
Keith Morehouse
via MotoG
On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 3:08 PM James Duffey <JamesDuffey@... <mailto:JamesDuffey@...>> wrote:
I was referring to the Olathe-Amarillo path. Tropo losses rise steeply
beyond 300 miles. Six and two are not too different with respect to the plot
below. Meteor scatter starts to overcome tropo at about 350 miles, depending
on station capability. WSJT-X helps, but at those distances MSK144 is
probably better than FT8 or FT4 for that path. Typical modest station
capability on 2M is about 200dB, less on 6M roughly by the difference in
antenna gains.
The difference in large part is due to the height of the scattering media;
for troposatter it is about 35,000 ft or below, for meteor scatter is it 60
miles or so. - Duffey
James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM
> On Sep 13, 2019, at 13:42, Steve London <n2ic@...
<mailto:n2ic@...>> wrote:
>
> Albuquerque-to-Amarillo: 269 miles. Once you get over the Sandia's, it's
a mostly downhill-to-flat path.
>
> Olathe-to-Amarillo: 410 miles.
>
> For reference, My QTH in DM52XT to Santa Fe is 240 miles. Can work W7QQ
on 6 and 2.
>
> 73,
> Steve, N2IC
>
>> On 09/13/2019 10:29 AM, Arne N7KA wrote:
>> I am hearing him and decoding.
>> Arne N7KA
>>> On September 13, 2019 at 10:20 AM Ed <n5jeh@...
<mailto:n5jeh@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>> MSK 144 would work better for that distance with no other propagation
to help. Just MHO
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10
>>>
>>> *ED N5JEH DM65RD *
>>>
>>> *From: *Arne N7KA <mailto:N7KA@... <mailto:N7KA@...>>
>>> *Sent: *Friday, September 13, 2019 8:52 AM
>>> *To: *NMVHF <mailto:nmvhf@groups.io <mailto:nmvhf@groups.io>>
>>> *Subject: *[nmvhf] DM95
>>>
>>> I copied N5KS on 6M FT8 yesterday with good sigs -8 to -14. I am
trying to work him for new 6M grid and sent him an email about looking this
way and into Olathe during the contest this weeked. He is in Amarillo. N5EPA might have a good chance, possibly W7QQ.
>>>
>>> Arne N7KA
>>>
>
>
>

Re: Troposcatter & ducting

Steve London
 

Last week, there were several -days- of 2 meter propagation between Mississippi and Ontario/Western NY, to the west of Dorian. Eat your heart out.

73,
Steve, N2IC

On 09/13/2019 03:29 PM, Keith Morehouse wrote:
A random observation...
There is troposcatter and then there is tropospheric ducting, which is what most VHF+ ops from east of the continental divide (and some west coasters) are familiar with, when 2M and above 'opens' over paths exceeding 3-400 miles.
While troposcatter is a useable propagating mode most anywhere and accountable for a good majority of those 300 mile Q's on 10M and above, tropo ducting is another animal altogether and rarely appears in areas of drastically variable terrain like central and western Colorado.  The temperature inversions that often (always ??) cause ducting to occur are usually at low enough elevations that they are blocked by high terrain.  Plus, inversions go hand in hand with atmospheric moisture content, something hard to come by in the dry southwest. My current humidity here in DM58 is 15%, which actually is high for this time of year.
-W9RM
Keith Morehouse
via MotoG
On Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 3:08 PM James Duffey <JamesDuffey@... <mailto:JamesDuffey@...>> wrote:
I was referring to the Olathe-Amarillo path. Tropo losses rise steeply
beyond 300 miles. Six and two are not too different with respect to the plot
below. Meteor scatter starts to overcome tropo at about 350 miles, depending
on station capability. WSJT-X helps, but at those distances MSK144 is
probably better than FT8 or FT4 for that path. Typical modest station
capability on 2M is about 200dB, less on 6M roughly by the difference in
antenna gains.
The difference in large part is due to the height of the scattering media;
for troposatter it is about 35,000 ft or below, for meteor scatter is it 60
miles or so. - Duffey
James Duffey KK6MC
Cedar Crest NM

> On Sep 13, 2019, at 13:42, Steve London <n2ic@...
<mailto:n2ic@...>> wrote:
>
> Albuquerque-to-Amarillo: 269 miles. Once you get over the Sandia's, it's
a mostly downhill-to-flat path.
>
> Olathe-to-Amarillo: 410 miles.
>
> For reference, My QTH in DM52XT to Santa Fe is 240 miles. Can work W7QQ
on 6 and 2.
>
> 73,
> Steve, N2IC
>
>> On 09/13/2019 10:29 AM, Arne N7KA wrote:
>> I am  hearing him and decoding.
>> Arne N7KA
>>> On September 13, 2019 at 10:20 AM Ed <n5jeh@...
<mailto:n5jeh@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>> MSK  144 would work better for that distance with no other propagation
to help. Just MHO
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10
>>>
>>> *ED  N5JEH   DM65RD *
>>>
>>> *From: *Arne N7KA <mailto:N7KA@... <mailto:N7KA@...>>
>>> *Sent: *Friday, September 13, 2019 8:52 AM
>>> *To: *NMVHF <mailto:nmvhf@groups.io <mailto:nmvhf@groups.io>>
>>> *Subject: *[nmvhf] DM95
>>>
>>> I copied N5KS on 6M FT8 yesterday with good sigs -8 to -14.  I am
trying to work him for new 6M grid and sent him  an email about looking this
way and into Olathe during the contest this weeked.   He is in Amarillo. N5EPA might have a good chance, possibly W7QQ.
>>>
>>> Arne N7KA
>>>
>
>
>