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To get any kind of efficiency on M/S, you really need to be out beyond 450-500 miles. That's been my minimum distance cut-off for contest schedules for many years. So, the farther, the better. Being able to elevate is the biggest advantage when close in.
BUT, from DM58, I have made dozens of 6M scatter contacts in the 250-400 miles range. These have been with well equipped stations (500W, 5+ ele antennas) and with mobiles/rovers running anything from whips to 2-3 element beams. I've worked George, KF2T, all through NV when he's been running nothing more than a halo and 100W. I don't know what kind of scatter some of these Q's were. Some appeared to be traditional M/S, with occasional short pings. Some had longer bursts and flutter-type sounds. Some were troposcatter - constant, fluttery, weak but easily copied by WSJT. Because of the short range of most of these Q's, I doubt the major propagation mode were meteors, but the Q was made and logged.
Keith J Morehouse
Calmesa Partners G.P.
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:06 PM Steve London <n2ic@...
Would it help the meteor scatter possibilities if it was done from T or C, 70
miles farther from W9RM ?
On 12/23/2019 05:48 PM, James Duffey wrote:
> I must confess that I have been remiss in uploading my rover sites to NMVHF.org.
> I will try to do that in the new year. Here is a site that I have operated from
> in DM63. It is a pullout in Hwy1 south of Socorro, just before HWY crosses over
> I25. It is about as close to the northern border of DM63 as you can easily get
> to from Albuquerque. There is plenty of space to set up there and there wasn’t
> much traffic or many lookie loos when I was there. It was quiet as there are no
> power lines, that I remember anyway. It is about 320 miles to W9RM from there.
> I ran a Radio Mobile path calculation and the predicted SNR is about -1dB. That
> is probably optimistic in NM and winter. None the less it indicates it is a
> workable path. You might be able to make it on CW. In comparison, the water
> tower at TorC site has a calculated SNR of +1 dB. The McDonalds parking lot
> calculated SNR is -20dB. The limiting terrain is at W9RM’s end. These SNRs are
> probably high by 5 to 10dB.
> FT8 should work better at those distances than meteor scatter. With meteor
> scatter and no antenna elevation, one end or the other may be better off
> pointing 180 degrees off the direct path and working meteors off the back.
> I hope this helps. -Duffey KK6MC
> James Duffey KK6MC
> Cedar Crest NM
>> On Dec 23, 2019, at 16:31, Bill <bill4070@...> wrote:
>> The NMVHF.org website shows, under the "reference" pulldown some good
>> operating spots for rovers and portable operators. Scott, Steve and Jim
>> identified 3 good operating spots. I would ask each of you to capture this
>> info in the format shown on the website for future operators. We made good use
>> of this info, as it was, during the 2017 contest year when the Central States
>> VHF Conference was held in Albuquerque. There were many operators who decided
>> to stay in the area and operate the August contest using info from the
>> website. We got some good feedback about documented operating spots and how
>> easy it was for someone unfamiliar with the area to plan and execute their
>> contesting activities.
>> So, that's why we have that info available and I would like to encourage
>> everyone with "tribal knowledge" to contribute to that info published on our
>> When complete, just forward that info to Mike WB2FKO for upload to the website.
>> Thanks a bunch,
>> Bill W7QQ
>> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 9:51 AM Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...
>> <mailto:w9rm@...>> wrote:
>> Jim, that's good info for future VHF contesting and should be stored
>> somewhere - the same with K5TA's and N2IC's descriptions.. On the NMVHF
>> web site, there are descriptions of hot spots in many different grids. It
>> would be pretty neat if more people could use the format already presented
>> there and write up grid spots they are familiar with.
>> In this particular instance, pretty much any reasonable location will work
>> for meteor scatter. Actually, at this close distance (DM63 to DM58),
>> elevating antennas up to 5-10 degrees above the horizon would enhance the
>> path, although I can't do this at my end on 6. However, Rovers should
>> keep this in mind. The display screen of WSJT & WSJT-X, which is the
>> program must everybody uses when running M/S now-a-days, actually has an
>> elevation number displayed, which is simply calculated on the distance
>> between you and who you're trying to work.
>> Keith J Morehouse
>> Managing Partner
>> Calmesa Partners G.P.
>> Olathe, CO
>> On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 7:27 PM KC7QY <kc7qy@...
>> <mailto:kc7qy@...>> wrote:
>> Ideally you'd want to go up to Magdalena Ridge. At 10,000 ft this is
>> not a particularly good time to try that though, I can see the snow up
>> there from town now. AA5PR ran from up there as a rover last June with
>> WSJT. The DM63 line is just south of Socorro, the line runs just about
>> through the landfill. If you take the old Hwy 1 south from Socorro,
>> once you pass the landfill there are a couple of pullouts where one
>> could set up. A bit farther south, without crossing I-25 on Hwy 1 but
>> continuing south,you can access some open country, mostly BLM land
>> with pretty good shots to the north and east. There's an old AT&T
>> tower down there and the road turns west and rises into the foothills.
>> Plenty of open space to operate.
>> West from here we do have the two ridges but I have been able to work
>> AZ and southern CA with my 3 el and 100 wts pretty regularly.
>> Jim KC7QY
>> On Sunday, December 22, 2019, 02:34:41 PM MST, Bruce Draper
>> <bruceaa5b@... <mailto:bruceaa5b@...>> wrote:
>> I was going to send you eMail in the next couple of days. I'm finally
>> back in NM and can do it soon. We have company this week, but next
>> week is open. I have 3 elements, 500 Watts.
>> On Dec 22, 2019, at 2:15 PM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm@...
>> <mailto:w9rm@...>> wrote:
>>> Would anyone be willing to take a trip to DM63 with equipment to run
>>> meteor scatter (or brute force troposcatter if you can run power)
>>> with me ? For M/S, 100W and a 3 element beam would probably do the
>>> trick - more is better, of course...
>>> That's the only grid I've never worked in NM on 6. Maybe during the
>>> January VHF test in a couple weeks or the weekend after New Years for
>>> the peak of the Quadrantids ?? With decent equipment on your end, it
>>> should be an easy shot and I'm sure there would be other interested
>>> Keith J Morehouse
>>> Managing Partner
>>> Calmesa Partners G.P.
>>> Olathe, CO