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Thanks for making the rules clear, and I appreciate the guidance
on contest logging and the role judgement plays in error rate. I
hope to develop and apply better judgement over time. It would
also be interesting to understand the relative contributions of
various factors (operator inexperience, slow QSO rate vs. changing
band conditions, QRM, etc.) on digital error rates.
Regarding non-contest QSO verification, I'd argue applying the
"know the Q is made" rule is going to leave valid QSOs unconfirmed
and make exchanges unnecessarily long, and is therefore wasteful.
I guess we'll debate that one another time.
On 1/20/2022 7:59 AM, Keith Morehouse
Welcome to the 'wonderful' world of digital
contesting where nobody knows for sure if QSOs are complete or
not. Between the problem you mentioned (which, to be fair, is
not limited to digital Qs) and the guys sending RR73 on meteor
scatter and over marginal paths, it's a miracle any valid Qs are
logged at all. The behavior of WSJTs auto sequencing doesn't
help this situation. It was certainly programmed by someone
with little knowledge of weak signal operation.
This is one where you have to go with your gut
feel on each Q. Questions like, ...who did I work ? ...
what's my experience with him ? need to be considered. Then,
how do you interpret the rules for logging a contest Q ? Are
you liberal or strict ?
What I'm saying, is it's on "you" the op, to
decide how valid each Q is. If you're wrong in a contest and
the other guy sends in his log, it's not just an ethical thing
(..am I taking improper credit that might be used toward some
award ?). You will be docked that Q and a penalty and your
score will go down, with the possibility of being disqualified
if you choose poorly enough times.
I lived my contesting life in the multi-op arena
and differentiated my performance with my fellow ops by
comparing error rates. I was very proud to have an extremely
low error and my approach to logging was influenced by that.
Others were not so inclined. You'll have to make the call.
This happens much more with digital Qs and average error rates
are going way up.
As far as trying to verify Qs after the fact,
that is totally against the rules and unacceptable. I
consider that true even outside contests. One is supposed to
know the Q is made WHEN YOU MAKE IT. That's one of the
reasons LoTW is 'blind' and internet chat room Qs are
Choose wisely !
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 10:58 PM
John Klem <klemjf@...
all who were able to provide me a few points in the contest
last weekend. It was a tough one, but I enjoyed checking out
spots around the state, making contacts on 3 bands (need to
1296 experience before next time), having both digital and
QSOs, and it was a beautiful Sunday morning near the
down in the Apache National Forest in DM53.
Anyway, I'm looking for opinions regarding a dilemma I've been
in a few
times in these contests. I imagine it's not specific to VHF
FT8, but those were my circumstances. Here's the problem:
I'm trying to finish a QSO, sending "RRR" to the other guy.
hears that, we have a complete QSO. If he doesn't, we don't.
sending to me but I can't decode (substitute "understand" if
him. Is he sending R or 73? I don't know. Suddenly the band
he is gone for good. Do I log him or not? He knows whether
the QSO is
complete, but I don't.
If it weren't a contest, I'd log him for sure. If he didn't
RRR, he doesn't log me. No big deal but no QSO. If he did
we're both good.
But it's a contest. If I log him and he didn't hear/log me, I
don't get the QSO points, I get a penalty. But if I'm fearful
and don't log him, but he heard and logged me, he gets no QSO
a penalty and hates me. What to do?
Can I ethically send him an email after the contest and ask if
Can I send him a QSL via LoTW and see if I get a match?
I suppose a competitive contester would base his choice on his
assessment of the likelihood that his QSO partner logged him,
considering band conditions and any other relevant factors.
situation has been debated to death or the question decided
but I haven't heard it. It's not exactly a life-or-death
matter, but it
would be nice to have a guilt- and regret-free way of making
Or maybe I'm just missing something. Any thoughts are